>I guess I'm saying this because I don't understand the irrationally aggressive atheist internet community, particularly on YouTube.

There's your problem right there. This sounds a bit like sample bias, where you interview a small group of people and assume that this small group of people represents a much larger group. For example, I once saw someone say something to the effect of "If people think movies today are so good, why do all my friends like movies from the 40s and 50s?" That's sample bias. The person in question assumed that consensus among his friends equated to a consensus among a larger group (in this case, America in general).

When you look at YouTube, LiveJournal, and most of the social networks, you're looking at people who are using the Internet to validate their own opinions, not engage in debate. I once saw a public access show called "Atheism Today", and immediately thought they had taken a simple idea and turned it into a complete waste of time.

Not to be a conspiracy theorist or anything, but it's also in the best interests of pro-religious arguments that atheism be seen as a socio-economic belief structure (á la religions such as Catholicism, Judaism, etc) since it allows arguments on a familiar playing field (religious differences). It's much harder to argue with "I just don't agree with you".

>>91
Well, I'm not saying all atheists are like that, obviously. I mean, I'm an atheist and the gist of what I'm saying is I don't understand it.

I'm criticizing the specific segment that does that. In an odd way it kind of elevates religion that someone could form their entire identity around being against it. It's just not that important to me. Of course there are situations where it does matter, like education and the separation of church and state, but beyond that, I personally don't give a shit, and it just seems so silly to me for some people to be so obsessed with the religious.

My perspective, if you care.

When I became an atheist, it was bitter. My Mom being a theist, her idea was I was deciding to go to hell. Because I couldn't accept her particular belief. The girl I liked basically went up to me and said, "go to hell". Now it's like anyone who isn't actively trying to convert me is saying "go to hell".

It was... rather depressing, to say the least.

Now see what (certain brands of) fundamentalism does to people; Westboro, Al-Qa'ida, the crusades, and so many other wars and so on. Easy stuff to blame on religion.

By being barking dogs, they think that for some, they're putting up a "united front" for people to stand behind, to feel not alone. For others, they're giving Atheism an intellectual place, so that nicer theists don't think they're all stupid arrogant morons, and actually lend one they might know a hand in some flavour of support while they establish their identity without the religious element. And for others, by proselytising Atheism, they think they're doing the world good while helping to stomp out unsupported claims of such great importance.

Then you get a number of ex-fundies, who feel gipped, and, because they're not used to shades of grey in the right or wrong area, think that their Atheism is of the same importance to the world as some fundies think their beliefs are.

I tried "converting" my friends, trying to persuade them to a more atheist worldview, simply because I was afraid that, since their morality-source basically says I deserved pain and torment for all eternity, they did too, and... I don't know, I was just scared.


But still, there are many atheists who really don't care what one believes, and are simply interested in promoting rational and empirical thought. For those, it isn't theists they hate, it's the claims of some particularly clueless or dishonest creationists or other denialists. xxxThePeachxxx, ZomgItsCriss, Potholer54, these come to mind. Hell, even thunderf00t used to be that way until the whole "he who fights monsters becomes one" thing and he went all fundie-atheist.

(Speaking of thunderf00t, he hated that, in the field of religion, he was defined as basically being the etc. too, the not believing in something group. So he coined the term PEARList: Pure Evidence And Rational Logic - ist (or so, if I'm remembering correctly). He thought of himself as champion in the promotion of science, innovation, progress, usw. Something he believed in, not what he didn't believe in.)

The thing about the amazing atheist is that he's a comedian by trade and nature. And I don't mean one who gets laughs by observing something humourous, no, he gets his laughs by being as offensive as possible. Like Louis Black without the humourous observations and twice the yelling. Even other atheists hate him. He's really only tolerated because he brings an audience to the occasion charity event. I don't remember, but I think he's doing dprjones' MSF blogtv drive going on now.

Not to mention, you're just seeing one side of them. Yes, ZomgItsCriss's Internet identity is mostly about atheism and politics, but she also has another site where she does movies reviews and another where she vlogs about all her pets, so it seems (she is most definitely an animal person, let me tell you).




Hope that helps at all. To me it wasn't about a common hivemind or anything, it was sticking up for one another when some religious group started attacking somebody with a weak defence. And politics. Politics makes everyone pseudo-intellectual idiots.

>>90

Now if only all atheists were as chill as you.

Instead most are all "OMG UR HINDU GTFO RETARD"

>>94
I wouldn't say "most". I'm sure "many" is more accurate. I guess I'm technically an atheist, although honestly I don't believe or pay attention to anything related to belief or non-belief in a higher power. I just don't care, but I guess I don't believe a higher power exists, either.

I've teased my theist friends every now and again, and they do the same with me. That's just friendly ribbing. I think what you're talking about is more along the lines of a people problem rather than a theist/atheist problem. It's that need to get everyone to conform to a singular world view so that someone can be happy. That could involve religion, but it could also center around politics, books, movies, or Scrabble.

Sorry Guys but being Atheist is just like being Catholic or Muslim. The Difference is that they "THAT" exist while You Say "THAT" don't exist. And you are in part the reason why they still think about that. Seriously No one on earth ever knew is there is or if there is not a God above us. Becausein the end This is just an Idea aong other, We human exist because we have idea and to share them.

>>96
Wait a second. What about people who don't care one way or the other? I feel I can honestly say I don't think about this sort of thing unless it's presented to me first. It's more than not believing. I just don't care. I don't see how that can be equated to religious thought.

The Way i see it, people who don't care are like spectator in a ping pong game, where they dont know any of the player or they really love both of them. You see them throw the ball at each other but you never intervene, unless there is a fault or one of them Win.

First, I'd like to thank you for not being one those edgy-teen pretend atheists you mentioned seeing on youtube. Yes, pretending. Since atheism doesn't really entail any set of rules, they don't feel like there's any moral code or standard of human decency they should adhere to. So they take it to the extreme and try to be as absolutely offensive and rude as possible to anyone who doesn't think like them. You're pretty dead on with saying they've turned it into a religion. Anti-theism? Unfortunately, the uninformed, vocal minority (at least, I'd like to think they're the minority) have a tendency to ruin it for the rest of us.

Personally, I don't consider myself fully atheist. Being raised Christian, I think a small part of me will always wonder how else a bunch of people who lived over 2000 years ago could possibly put together the largest troll in history and somehow it has continued for this long. Realistically, I don't take any stock in prayer, but I won't protest when my grandparents say grace around the dinner table. I have no doubt that death is the end, but I think Heaven as a concept is a necessary human coping mechanism for dealing with the grief of losing a person forever. Hell on the other hand, is just a silly scare tactic to try and persuade people to behave, but feigning sincerity isn't much better when you feel resentful for being manipulated.

Overall, there's lots of good messages taught by religion, but I feel our species has reached an evolutionary stage where we have the mental capacity and racial diversity to know that we're all basically the same and are beginning to understand that we don't necessarily have to believe in any "higher power" in order to live in harmony with each other. However, it will be quite a while before we really discard religion as a way of interpreting the world we live in. I mean, the idea that our entire existence is a series or random scientific anomalies over millions of years in which our lives are minutely insignificant; isn't exactly a comforting outlook on life.

Of course, the people we see on youtube wouldn't understand any of this because they're just looking for attention by being what they perceive is an "extreme" or "edgy" ideology. Atheism isn't some exciting counter-culture club. It's just another boring way of looking at your life.

The only thing I really have against organized religion is they tendency it has to split us all into factions and encourage us to laud our ideas over others as if we are superior than them because of our *beliefs*.

We're all born into a world we had no choice in entering. We all feel pain. And at the end of it all, we die and get thrown in a hole in the ground (if we're lucky). What we make of ourselves in between is up to us. If there is intelligent life out there, what does it say about our species that we stubbornly cling to an archaic idea of myth-enforced self-control that pits us against each other on the basis of the main character, rather than seeing those myths for what they are and acknowledging that the basic lessons are the same?

I had a perfect picture in mind to illustrate my point, but I can't for the life of me find it on my HD or though GIS.

>>97
I wouldn't take much stock in what he's saying. His other posts seem to indicate he's either underage or otherwise lacking in experience in the areas he gives his input on. If my guess is correct, he's breaking the site rules by posting here.

There's a difference between "atheist" and "evangelicalism atheist." People like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens going so far as to suggest arresting the Pope for "crimes against humanity" and stupid shit like that. These types of people are just as evangelical as the religious ones who fervently try to convert you.

I'm a Catholic originally, but I've drifted so far from the church being a part of my life that I don't really know if I could still identify as one. I do really like the appeal of Deism, though. There's a God and a Heaven, but they don't get involved with shit, they just observe. Also that Jesus wasn't devine, which is a theory I don't really subscribe to. Which is also why I still identify myself as a Christian at the very least.

But I don't think atheists go to hell. Why would they? If the God of my religion is all forgiving, all knowing, and above all, all merciful, why would He condemn you to fire for all eternity? The second you wake up in Hell, you'd think "Oh shit, that was all real?" and probably learning really fucking fast how to pray. If God is omnibenevolent, how could He let you suffer?

>>100
Well, you're forgetting that there are two basic renditions of the Judeo-Christian deity. The New Testament version is fairly caring, but the Old Testament version pretty much went on a killing spree. Given that both testaments are combined into one book, it's a question with regards to which deity you're likely to get.

>>101
Well that pretty much comes down to whether you're jewish or christian. Jews don't believe jesus was the son of god, and disregard the new testament. Christians say jesus died for our sins and the old testament is nothing more than a historical record which is not to be taken seriously anymore because jesus was a peace&love kind of person how denounced all that violent, wrath of a vengeful god stuff.

For Me, the idea i have of all that christian, jews, muslim and any other religion you can be, is the following: They are all just ideas. let me explain; if three of us are in a room with a box on a table and in this box there is a ball, this ball can be red, green, blue or any color you want. Then someone ask us what is the color of the ball inside the box(remember no one of us as seen the ball yet). At this point we will all think about wich color is the ball inside the box and there is a possibility that we all come up with different idea about the real color of the ball. But now if we are still left in the room with only the question asked and no one to answer it we will ask each other what the color of the ball can be, we might even try to convince each other that our idea is the best, that there is no chance that the ball could be of any other color. So far, the color of the ball is just an idead, because no one as seen it, no one really know it and if no one remove the box, the question will be left unanswered.
Now replace the ball by a god and ask yourself the same question "Wich god is into it" or you can even try "Is there a God into it". But so far no one of us poor human can lift the box and show the real answer to anyone else and that is why the question still go on after 2000 years, because no one can give a real and definitive answer.

>>103

So much balls.

>>103
You are, in a sense, agnostic. An agnostic would say 'Forget the ball. We aren't able to know what it is one way or another.'

Your argument itself is interesting because you've mixed religious discussion with Schröedinger's Cat, which caused its own rumblings in the world of theoretical physics.

>>103
If we can't lift the box, we can't even know the ball is really there. The color is irrelevant.

If we can shake the box to prove something round is inside, we can at least move beyond theory and conclude there is a ball. However, since we have proof there is a ball, there's no point in arguing the color because it's a trivial matter which does not adversely affect our lives. And we could simply open the box to bypass any argument.

Or just say "fuck it" and walk away from the whole nonsense.

>>106
That is a part of my point.
In the end we are all there asking ourself question about something we can't verify, we can't get any clue of and will always stay that way. But the real question is: Why are we still talking about it? we still do it because every question need an answer and a question without answer will stay forever. Because that is a question that but you in front of the infinit, you can give any number of answer that will stay unanswered.
And has i was saying Idea are there to confront themselves, as long as the question will stay there idea will come up to fight for the "Real" answer. But it's those idea that keeps up alive, those idea we made and shared are the real reason we live here.
That conversation here is the apotheosys(kind of) of the human mind, idea fighting against each other, wich will win, wich will regroup the most and the few. Maybe we are all here to find The "idea" that will unit us all and finally breach the wall between each mind.
I Say: Together as One & Divided by Zero

>>107
Can you please proofread your posts and fix the spelling mistakes? You keep misspelling words as other words and it happens so frequently that I can't make any sense of it at all.

>I Say: Together as One & Divided by Zero
*sigh*

>>110
Sorry for the mistake!
That is a part of my point.
In the end we are all there asking ourself question about something we can't verify, we can't get any clue of, and it will always stay that way. But the real question is: Why are we still talking about it? we still do it because every question need an answer and a question without an answer will stay forever. Because this is a question that put you in front of you the infinit, you can give any number of answer, and this will stay unanswered.
And has i was saying, Idea are there to confront themselves, as long as the question will stay there, idea will come up to fight for the "Real" answer. But it's those idea that keeps us alive, those idea we made and share are the real reason we live here.
That conversation here is the apotheosys(kind of) of the human mind, idea fighting against each other, wich one will win, wich one will regroup the most and the few. Maybe we are all here to find The "idea" that will unit us all and finally breach the wall between each mind.
I Say: Together as One & Divided by Zero
i Hope it is better that way!

>>99
AHA! I found it in an archive of files I moved off the broken laptop.